When it comes to conversations about leadership transitions in the church, a couple of the most common questions that people ask are, What does a successful succession look like? and What are some of the commonalities among churches that have done succession well? To get some answers, I reached out to a few pastor friends of mine who have experienced a successful transition from a longtime church leader. Eric Geiger is the senior pastor of Mariners Church in Irvine, California. Daniel Im is the lead pastor of Beulah Alliance Church in Edmonton, Alberta. Jeff Frazier is lead pastor of Chapelstreet Church in the western suburbs of Chicago. We talked about the similarities and differences between their experiences, the keys to a healthy succession plan, and some of the common mistakes to avoid in the transition process.
Eric, by everyone’s description, your transition was a successful one. What were some of the markers that made it go well?
Eric Geiger: The vast majority of the credit goes to Kenton [Beshore], who is my predecessor, and also the team who led the transition. I’ve heard Kenton tell pastors that he prepared his heart 10 years ahead of time. The reason that was so important is that he really was ready to release the church. Kenton was healthy when the transition happened, and then he involved lots of people in the church. There was a leadership development committee that did research on churches that transitioned. And then the elders appointed a [pastor] search group.
There were constant conversations with staff and leaders that there was a transition happening. Even before I knew I was coming, so many conversations had happened on how to honor the past, how to welcome a new leader, how to embrace a new vision. That really contributed to a healthy transition.
Daniel, tell us a little bit about your story.
Daniel Im: I was succeeding a legacy pastor, Keith Taylor. His grandmother came to know Christ at this church; his grandchildren are going to this church. He is incredibly beloved with a 30-year tenure. So, from that point when the elders came together and were praying about the profile of the next lead pastor, they wanted to go with a “son of the house”—someone who had been on staff before. They wanted someone who really lived the values of the church and wanted to help the church continue in its history of multiplication.
At the time, I was leading church multiplication for Lifeway. There were a lot of pieces that I loved, but I longed to be back full-time in the local church. I describe it like this: When we discern God’s will, it’s like a jigsaw puzzle. There are a lot of different pieces that God will give you in different callings and different situations, things that you’re good at. When I was at Lifeway, it was almost like the largest piece of the puzzle was coming together and a picture was forming. And then when this opportunity at Beulah came up, it was almost like God turned the puzzle around and he was like, You were actually looking at it backward. And then all of these pictures of the puzzle that were all over started coming in. I was like, OK, so this is what God designed me for in this next season of my life.
Jeff, share a little bit about your journey.
Jeff Frazier: My predecessor was not the founder, but he is the legacy pastor who was there for 30 years—22 in the lead seat. His name is Brian Coffey and he works full-time now for me. I worked on his staff for 14 years in a number of different roles. Brian will say that it worked because I stayed for so long. But I always say I stayed because he made room for me to stay and space for me to grow. I didn’t have to leave to get new opportunities.
Eric, you were coming from another state, another cultural background, another denominational tradition. What was it like coming in as a stranger to them versus what Daniel and Jeff experienced?
Geiger: There is a book that I have recommended to people who ask me about going into a succession role. It’s called The First 90 Days, which is about looking at the state of an organization—if it’s a startup, a turnaround, a realignment or a sustaining success. And the reason that’s important is if you go into a succession and you are going to go in with a turnaround type of leadership—you know, move quickly, set new values, new strategy—there are times when that kind of leadership is essential in a turnaround and a startup. But in a successful, sustaining, healthy culture, that’s not wise.
If you come into a situation like I did, which was a sustaining success type of context, the last thing you want to do is come in with guns blazing and announcing change. You really want to embrace what you love about the church that God called you to. In the first 18 months, I exercised building trust, pastoring people, teaching the Scripture and building a close relationship with Kenton.
Jeff, your church has grown substantially since the transition. How has it felt for the prior pastor? How have you worked with him?
Frazier: We were, to use Eric’s language, a sustained success model. The church was healthy and growing. But it has accelerated since the transition. And I give a lot of credit to the fact that Brian was a healthy leader. He wasn’t burned out. He initiated the conversation. We shared almost everything for the year before we transitioned officially so that if you came to the church, you wouldn’t have known which one of us was the lead pastor.
When we transitioned, one of the wise things that we did as a church was that Brian went on a six-month sabbatical as a gift to bless him for his years of service and to help the transition. So, I had to own everything. But he’s still one of our campus pastors and on our preaching team. I think that the unique situation we have with longevity provided an opportunity for seamless transition and rapid growth post-succession, which I know is not the norm. And I’m very grateful for it.
Daniel, were you immediately the senior pastor, or was there an overlap?
Im: We agreed that the transition period would be no longer than two years. The other piece of information was I was hired by the board to be the next lead pastor. So the staff knew that, but the congregation didn’t know that until a year into it. No one lied if the church asked whether I was going to be the next lead pastor, but we didn’t publicize it in any way. I came on with a senior associate pastor title.
The biggest gift that Keith gave me was this: He was like Whatever staffing changes you need to make, whatever you want your leadership team to look like—the structure of the staff, the organization—do as much of that as you can while I’m still here so we can cash in my relational coins and my credibility. By the time the baton pass actually happened—which ended up being a year and a half into me being there—the staff was set, the structure was set, and we were able to go and gain momentum.
Eric, when you’re asked to give advice on succession, what do you say?
Geiger: I start by asking a couple of questions right off the bat. “Tell me about the predecessor. How ready is that person to leave? How much work have they done on their own soul? Are they satisfied? Do they want to leave and then help?”
Second is, “Who are you going to be working for? Because if the predecessor is hiring you, and you’re working for that person, you’re going to feel like you can’t make any kind of moves whatsoever.”
And then I ask, “Are you on the same page as the people who are hiring you about where the church is? Is there clarity of understanding about your assessment of the type of leadership that the church needs in the next 12 to 18 months?”
Your predecessor, Kenton, is a force of personality unlike anyone else in this conversation.
Geiger: He owns every room he walks into, right? [Smiles.] The thing about Kenton that’s beautiful is that he knows himself. So he offices off-site. I didn’t ask for that. That was a decision that was made before I got to Mariners Church.
We have a relationship where we meet regularly. And I think one of the things that’s been helpful is that we have kept a short record of wrongs. There’s only been a couple of times that I know of when I’ve done something that’s offended him. And then there’s been a couple of times where I’ve said, “That thing that you said in that meeting, I feel like it undermined a direction that I’m taking.” And on both sides [we have said]: “Thank you for saying this. It would hurt me so much if that had been underneath the water. The fact that you are bringing it up shows how much you value the relationship.” So even the missteps we’ve had have actually made the relationship stronger.
But there is an inevitability of conflict. Did you have ground rules ahead of time for those situations?
Geiger: Beth Ganem, who was the executive pastor under Kenton, and who I asked to stay, basically put together a contract and said, “I’m going to facilitate. This is my first month and you guys are loving each other right now, but let’s just assume that one day there’ll be a problem. And here’s how you’re agreeing to handle it.” And we’ve never had to pull that contract out. But I guess it’s this thing that’s just planted in your head, that we’re going to operate really well together relationally.
Frazier: We also had a transition agreement that we worked on and all signed. It had everything to do with compensation, role-defining and the way we would behave and interact. And so that was helpful. We never really got to a point where we had to go back to that document and say, “You said you would do X.”
The biggest challenge for me—and this is unique probably because I’d been there so long and been on Brian’s team—was I struggled with looking over my shoulder and wondering, What does he think? He and I had a defining conversation one time where I asked him that, and he said, “You’re in the seat now. It doesn’t matter what I think.” And that was really helpful and freeing to me.
Daniel, unpack the conflict question a little bit.
Im: We agreed early on that we would keep short accounts. We had multiple instances of conflict, especially when COVID-19 hit. I felt like that was a little bit of an equalizer. I mean, he had more experience than me in all things except in this area [where I was] a little bit more familiar with all things digital.
Now, what’s interesting about our dynamic is I’m born and raised in Vancouver, but I’m Korean. So being Korean, there is a high, high respect of authority and age that is ingrained in my bones. Keith is 30 years my senior, and he is a legend in many different respects. But honestly, for me, as much as I had that cultural side that I had to wrestle with, I had a strong call to Beulah and to Edmonton in and through the discernment process.
And that’s really what I would encourage [everyone] to be mindful of. I was like, Jesus, are you calling us to do this? That call, I feel, supersedes my hesitancy toward conflict.
What mistakes have you seen in other successions?
Geiger: A common one I see is the successor not valuing the predecessor, making comments about the past that dismiss the past, or undermine the past, as opposed to celebrating the past. You’re basically throwing a spiritual shepherd who has been instrumental in so many people’s lives under the bus. Not only is it sinful, it’s just dumb.
Frazier: Sometimes I think the mistake is made where you dishonor the predecessor. You don’t intend to. You’re talking about the past decisions that were made about ministry, but you forget that that’s attached to somebody.
Im: Not recognizing that the congregation and your team are going at a different pace. The longer someone on your staff has been serving under your predecessor, the more likely they’re going to have that allegiance to them and to the church. So how do you lead change among your staff when you have previous staff that have all this history, but then you also have new staff that don’t know the history? It would be important to ensure that you’re mindful that there are different groups in the change.
What is the best advice you would give on church leadership transitions?
Im: You can look at transition from the perspective of the incoming, the outgoing and the church. In a typical transition, when the outgoing hands their keys in, they’re done. And there’s an intentional interim that happens and then the new person comes. That’s the easiest for the outgoing, and I find the hardest for the incoming and for the church.
But when there is an intentional overlap in the baton pass, I would say it’s easiest for the incoming, best for the church, hardest for the outgoing. Because it’s like a death by a thousand paper cuts. The outgoing, with humility, needs to let go and surrender. So, if you are the incoming in that sort of situation, I would ask, “How do you respect? How do you love? How do you honor the outgoing pastor?”
Frazier: Every new leader is going to want to implement some new vision. And even if you’re in a turnaround situation, do everything you can to root that vision in the good parts of the past. Find something to anchor it to, and that will pay dividends for your church family and for the growth.
Geiger: Hold to the fact that if you’ve heard from God and you believe he’s put you there, you are anointed to lead. Don’t let the confidence that comes from the Spirit’s anointing wane in your life. Throw yourself at God’s feet, at his mercy. But know that he’s put you there, and you can lead because he’s giving you the ability to lead.
Editor’s Note: This article is adapted from a ChurchLeaders.com Facebook Live roundtable discussion titled, “What Makes or Breaks Ministry Successions?”