Before she became an academic, a theologian and a pastor, Heather Matthews was simply a Christian woman trying to navigate life in her church. She felt God had uniquely gifted and called her to serve him in ways that she struggled to live out as a woman in a culture where men held the power. Despite her encounters with sexism, Matthews found ways to become the woman God has made her to be.
Today, she is the Doctor of Ministry Program Manager at Wheaton College Graduate School and has worked as a pastor, church planter, non-profit leader and missionary for more than 20 years. Her area of expertise, women in church leadership, pulls from her professional studies and her personal experiences. Most recently, she released her first book, Confronting Sexism in the Church: How We Got Here and What We Can Do About It (IVP, August 2024).
In the following interview, she talks with Outreach about the issue of sexism in the church and the hope she has that God is moving to redeem it.
What is sexism and what do we misunderstand about it?
Sexism is any belief or practice that diminishes a woman’s identity as fully and equally created in God’s image and restricts women on the basis of sex from actualizing their full identity by using their gifts and abilities in the church, home and world. It’s kind of a long definition, but in general, sexism is anything that prevents women from flourishing and being the people God made them to be and doing the things God has given them to do. Most of us are familiar with what sexism is, especially the more overt and hostile forms of it. But I do think sexism has changed. Because many of those more overt things aren’t socially acceptable anymore, sexism is often implicit, hidden under the surface and outside of our awareness.
Do you think that sometimes because those implicit forms of sexism are harder to recognize, they get dismissed as illegitimate? That women who point them out are seen as just being too sensitive?
Yeah, it’s easy to dismiss them. Like, Oh, you’re just making that up, you’re too sensitive, it’s not a big deal, it’s just normal life, everybody deals with stuff like that. And that’s why it’s easy for women to dismiss it as well. But they happen every day to women and have tremendous impact.
Sexism has always been a problem, but it feels like the issue has received more attention in the church over the last few years, especially since so many stories have come out of sexual abuse in the church at the hands of leaders, and many well-respected leaders in the church have stepped down after their own sexual abuse of women came to light. It feels like an important time to be having this conversation.
There are so many things that have happened with the #MeToo [and #ChurchToo] movement[s] and the scandals we’ve seen in the church and the changing culture. We are way past the feminist movement [of] the last century. Women have come to expect something different, and the #MeToo movement and the scandals in the church have really brought this issue to the forefront. Women are starting to speak out about the issue, so I really do think we’re at an inflection point. There’s a new kind of momentum for change because of these different things that have been happening.
Do you think everything that has happened has made those in power in the church more open to having conversations about sexism, or has it made them even more cautious and therefore less likely to want to discuss the issues?
I definitely think there’s been some of that negative reaction where some leaders are pulling back more from women or setting new boundaries, but there is a growing awareness among men that this is an issue. There are men who are advocating for the needs of women in the church. The exciting part is there are more men out there who are more aware of the issue because of the #MeToo movement and the scandals in the church. They’re more willing to engage in the issue now, and there’s more social pressure from the outside that the culture is changing and expecting something different. People outside the church want women to be respected in the church as much as they are outside the church these days.
Do women help perpetuate sexism at all?
Women are often just as guilty of perpetuating sexism as men. Even without knowing it, women can be some of the most vocal supporters of sexist structures and practices in the church. It’s ingrained in our subconscious as well, because it’s the culture many of us have lived. One of the benefits of eradicating sexism for women and why it’s a worthwhile endeavor, is that it frees all of us to be the people God created us to be.
There is no singular way to be a Christian woman. God made all of us differently with different strengths and personalities, and there’s freedom for all of us to have our unique place in the world. We don’t have to compete against each other or police other women for the things we’re doing or not doing or for whether we’re following specified expectations. As women, the best thing we can do for each other is to just encourage each other to be the people God created us to be and to work together against sexism that still exists in the church and the culture.
There is irony in the fact that it is often men who are the perpetrators of sexism against women, yet because they hold the power in the church, they also have the power to change it. It can be challenging to convince someone to take an active role in change when they haven’t directly felt the pain and consequences themselves. How do you propose getting men on board?
This is one of the biggest challenges, because as women, we have been talking about this forever, really, and we’ve certainly made some progress, but we won’t make further progress without the help of more men. It’s very difficult to get men to engage, and when I’m in groups of women talking about this, that is one of the very first things they bring up. Women will say, It’s great that we’re talking about this, but we all already know and understand this issue. We need men in the room and engaged. We really need more male allies in the church who are willing to recognize the problem and to advocate for women. And it’s hard. It is a difficult issue to address, but we do need men who, with humility, can listen to women’s stories and deal with the discomfort of engaging with this issue in the church. Men who are willing to share power or relinquish power for the sake of women and engage in the slow, hard work of bringing about this kind of change.
This isn’t a zero-sum game. There is room for men and women to be their full selves and the people God created them to be, and I believe that when men can be advocates and allies for women, it actually serves them as well, because it frees them to be who God made them to be, too. It’s important for the church. It’s impacting our influence in the world because of the way we’re perceived. It’s a matter of our witness.
As a Christian woman, what do you want men to know?
In general Christian women want men to know that it’s hard being a Christian woman. We carry so many expectations and responsibilities in life, and we daily face these issues of sexism—both the hostile and dangerous forms of sexism and the microaggressions and smaller forms we encounter on a day-to-day basis in our lives and in the church. We keep living bravely and sacrificially. Most women love the church and have given their lives to following Jesus and serving the church even though we’re not always welcomed and appreciated. But we would love for Christian men to join us, because they can play a vital role in supporting our lives as women and fighting against these different forms of sexism that impact our daily lives. We really need men’s advocacy and allyship, and since they’re still predominantly the ones in power in evangelical church spaces, we need them to join with us to address these issues of sexism.
Christian women would want men to know that it’s not just for our benefit, but it benefits our marriages, our relationships, our children, our churches and our witness to the world when we can address this issue and work and live interdependently with each other. If people outside the church saw Christians empowering and advocating for women and fighting against sexism, that the gospel might actually be good news, especially for women outside the church. If we take this seriously, it really impacts everything for us as followers of Jesus.
Do you see hope for women in the church? How does confronting and reversing sexism fit into the larger redemption story of the Bible?
I do have hope. It does feel like this is an important time we’re in where I do see things changing more rapidly than they have before. I grew up in the church, and I’ve been part of the evangelical church my whole life. I have been engaged in this issue of sexism my whole adult life, and I do feel like I am seeing more change and more engagement than I ever have before.
So, I feel pretty hopeful even though the change is still often much slower than I would like. There are so many more people talking and writing and speaking and working toward change with regard to sexism in the church. And I believe the Bible is a story of redemption and that God is at work healing all the brokenness and injustice in the world, and this is one of those issues. When we work toward eradicating sexism, we are part of bringing God’s kingdom to this earth.