Joby Martin: Why “Pace Is a Myth” and Faithfulness Wins
As a leader of a church that is growing quickly, how do you discern between growing for its own sake versus the Holy Spirit moving and growing the church?
That’s a great question. We say it internally and externally all the time: We are not in the crowd business; we are in the disciple-making business. We don’t have meetings about the crowds and how to get bigger crowds. All of our effort is, how do we get somebody to take the next step of obedience toward the Good Shepherd? That’s what discipleship is. And it’s very clearly articulated at our place.
One of the things we talk about internally all the time—because, you know, we have a big church, we have a fast-growing church—is why in the world would we think God would send us anybody that we can’t disciple? We’re just coming off of one of the biggest weekends we’ve ever had. We baptized 2,552 people in one day in the ocean. The key, though, [is] that is not the finish line. That is the starting line. All of our staff for the next few weeks are making personal one-on-one contacts to help these folks take their next step of obedience, whether that’s personal spiritual formation stuff, like start reading the Bible on your own, join a disciple group, serve, whatever. And we’re not trying to get them to take all the steps at once either. Just, what is your next step of obedience in your discipleship journey?
The key, though, is that you never outgrow that. All of us have a next step of obedience, right? Because if we quit taking steps, by definition, we’re not following Jesus. And there are no “standers” of Jesus; there are followers of Jesus. We’re not even trying to mandate what your next step has to be because I don’t think it’s as linear as some folks have tried to make discipleship.
We created what we call a discipleship journey. The way we designed it is, there are on-ramps at every area of those next steps. And we want you to pray like crazy, maybe meet with somebody at our church, to figure out what your next step is.
Are there common pitfalls that churches fall into when it comes to discipleship?
Larry Osborne, who started North Coast Church, says that too many churches get all hung up on the watering schedule instead of the lawn. I think this is so true.
The watering schedule is just the means, and what your yard looks like is the end. You have got to understand means and ends. The ends is that people would be justified by receiving the gospel, they would be sanctified by the work of the Spirit in them, and one day, praise God, we will be glorified. Disciple-making is what we’re shooting for.
The pitfall is that we think because something worked in Southern California, it’s going to work at your church. Because it worked at a big, old church, it’s going to work at your little church. Because that particular dynamic leader led this thing at that church, if you just copy and paste what he did and do it at your church, then surely it’s going to work. Leaders have to understand that, first and foremost, we are shepherds to sheep, and we have got to start where our flock is.
And then we need a lot more prayer and study, and a lot less copy and paste. I pray, Lord, they’re your sheep; they’re not my sheep. You’re the Chief Shepherd. I’m the under shepherd. I work for you. What do you want to say to your sheep through me? When we bring that posture, then the focus is on how we’re discipling people, not the programs we’re trying to run.
What gives you the most hope for the U.S. church right now?
This upcoming generation, especially the young men. First of all, for these young men, the bar has never been set lower. If you just wake up before noon, put on pants, and have a job, you’re like the stud alpha male elite. But you really have seen in this generation, in many pockets, they are rejecting what the world is offering, and they have a hunger for the Lord.
I’ll leave it to the historians to decide if we are in a time of revival, but man, you sure do see some pockets of it. And I want to be the kind of church that’s not talking down to this generation but lifting them up, standing on the wall in protection against the enemy that wants to steal, kill and destroy. I want to fan the flame of what God is doing in this generation. And it gives me great hope.
Another thing that gives me great hope is [that] the idea of being a cultural Christian seems to be waning. And it seems like things are getting more polarized, and that’s not altogether terrible. Seems like the people that are in are more all in, and that lots of people aren’t just going to casually attend just because it might be good for their reputation in town so they can sell more insurance or whatever. That’s not necessarily a bad thing.
