Confessions of a Megachurch Pastor: Extended

Dig deeper into the innermost likes, dislikes, weaknesses and fears of four of today's megachurch pastors.

 

Interviews by Ron Forseth

 

JOHN BURKE: GATEWAY COMMUNITY CHURCH

If you weren’t a pastor, what would be your dream job?

JB– You know what, this is my dream job! I seriously mean that. I’ve played that game a lot – if I had all the time and all the money in the world… what would I do? And I would do this! I mean, we started this church eight years ago. There were four or five of us originally. We were just starting to talk to people and reach people and see people come to faith. And so seeing it grow out of that just stretched and used every gift I have, and I’ve had to walk by faith in ways I never have. I’ve gotten to see impact, fruit, in ways I never have. And I can’t imagine anything else.

In your job, do you ever feel nervous or scared?

JB–Well, I will say that I feel a lot like a fish out of water sometimes. I mean, I honestly never really set out to do this. I went to the University of Texas here in Austin years ago and I majored in engineering. And I would not, absolutely not, get up and speak in front of a crowd, no matter what! They wanted me to run for student counsel in high school and another office in college, and I wouldn’t do it because I didn’t want to make the speech! So I would have laughed at you if you said I would be a lead pastor of a church of thousands in Austin someday. There are many days when I finish speaking, and driving home, I feel absolutely naked! I think, God, how did you get me here? I feel completely unprepared!

What’s brought you through times of discouragement at your church?

JB– Early on, it felt like a really rough road. We were meeting in temporary locations and kept getting booted out of one location after another, about six different locations in the first two years. We would see lots of people coming through the doors and many were finding faith; 70% of the people coming early on were completely un-churched, and yet we had a huge back door because we kept moving and we’d lose people! They couldn’t or didn’t have the motivation to track us down! And so that was very discouraging.

It’s just a lot of hard work! And you often feel like things aren’t going according to plan or the way that you hoped, and no matter how hard you try you’re not seeming to get that momentum. And as soon as I stop pushing it stops rolling! And so that wears you out and becomes discouraging. During those times I really wrestled with God.

CRAIG GROESCHEL: LIFECHURCH.TV

 

Can you paint a picture of some painful decisions you’ve had to make?

CG – You know, I think the most painful ones are dealing with staff- they’re like family to me. When you have a staff member who is really not in the right place and you have to ask them to leave, that’s always tough.

We actually closed down a campus. We tried to launch two in Phoenix, and we ended up shutting one down. That’s pretty tough! It’s similar to closing a church. Another thing is the loneliness of leadership; it’s more of a personal pain, when you’re seeking God and you’re not sure if you’re hearing from Him and you have to make a decision. It's the pretty real and constant weight of wondering if I’m pleasing God with this decision.

What do you do to stay next to Jesus in the midst of the busyness of your ministry?

CG – For years and years, my prayer life was a struggle and now, probably during the last two years, praying has been like breathing air for me. Sometimes at night, and this might sound strange, I pray the name of Jesus in every way I can and talk about his attributes, his qualities. That helps me to stay close. It’s just a very, very passionate prayer time with Jesus.

I find that in my personal life, I don’t separate the secular from the sacred a lot. I think it’s holy to go home and wrestle with my boys. And that keeps me close to Jesus! I also go out and play tennis with people. Though I have a history of being spiritually streaky, I’m learning to sustain my passion for God more in the past few years.

A lot of pastors end up getting so Christianized that they actually lose touch with unbelievers. Do you find yourself in contact with non-Christians on a weekly basis?

CG – Yes. Several years back, our family recognized that we hadn’t had a non-Christian in our home for a long time, unless there was someone repairing our sink or something. We had not been in a relational environment with a non-Christian in a long time. And so we intentionally decided that was going to change! The best thing for me is that I go to the gym four times a week, and that’s where I have consistent contact with people that are very far from God. Without that, I think I could easily slip into a Christian bubble where Christians are the only people I interact with. But working out at the gym is my evangelistic playground.

DAVID ANDERSON: BRIDGEWAY COMMUNITY CHURCH

 

What’s it like for you when you're delivering your sermon? What are you experiencing inside?

DA - There is an adrenalin rush I get when I’m speaking, a real connection I have with people I’m speaking to. And I love to be able to somehow create through words, shaping a teaching for people and seeing that they get it, that they’re touched by it. It feels like I’m dancing when I’m speaking. So the actual execution of messages I enjoy, but the preparation – it takes work to do that.

How do you make sure pride doesn't drive your leadership?

DA - When you feel strongly about something you’re leading, you want to make sure it’s done with the right motive. And pride is always mixed in there. Anyone who leads has to struggle with pride. So those two almost walk hand in hand. The key is keeping one at bay and allowing the other one to rise up. I always pray what John the Baptist said: "Lord, may I decrease so that you might increase." That’s what I pray before I preach publicly and that’s what I pray privately, that I would decrease so that He increases. I pray that specifically when I’m exercising my spiritual gifts of leadership and preaching. 

What makes you feel defeated?

DA - I think my biggest discouragements have been relational and family and marriage and other relationships, as well as trying to navigate my private world with my public success. That's the area where the evil one can discourage you because when you realize that you aren’t as big a success in your private realm as you are in your public realm. You walk away feeling like you’re a hypocrite. And that’s the reality! In a way you are, and in a way you’re not. In a way you’re just human, and there is a fine line between humanity and hypocrisy, in my opinion. Humanity says, shoot – this is who I really am. Hypocrisy says, this is who I am, but I’m not going to let anybody know it so that they believe in the fake me.

JOEL OSTEEN: LAKEWOOD COMMUNITY CHURCH

How do you manage all the demands on your time?

JO – You know, we’ve got two children, 8 and 12. We made a decision early on not to let our kids grow up without us being able to invest in them. I’ve been raised as a preacher’s kid and learned that the work is never done. It doesn’t matter if your church has 1,000 people or many, many more. There’s always going to be somebody needing or wanting something. You have to take some time for yourself and be disciplined to be balanced in every area.

I work out of my home. I don’t go into the office. I don’t go into the church. And it’s probably not practical for some, but in my case, Monday and Tuesday I try to take most of the day off. I do make a few calls, but as a matter of fact, my son is in the other room – he’s off school for the summer and he’s ready to play basketball with me. It's very difficult when there are tons of good opportunities and you’ve got the heart to help, but I've been very disciplined in staying focused on my priorities.

In the last eight years, did you ever feel like you were off track with God’s purposes for Lakewood?

JO - There are some programs that I started that I realized didn’t work. One was my idea, and it had to do with giving people the opportunity to come out and meet others in different fields that people work in. Like, Monday night it might have been the medical field, and medical professionals would come out and meet and greet. And Tuesday night, people who are into construction or something like that would gather. But that didn’t take off, and I just said, "Well, it was sounding like a good idea, and I thought it would connect people, but nobody showed up." So we just stopped it. We’re a big believer in trying it, and if it doesn’t work, you say God, we did our best. And I’ll be the first to admit that I change my mind; I don’t do everything right. I’ll be the first to swallow my pride and say, often, "It was as my idea, y’all." I don’t defend it, don’t feel bad about it. It just didn't work.

Do you interface with non-Christians, not as a pastor but as a person?

JO - I do, but probably don’t do it as much as I used to. You know, I believe one of the best witnesses (and we have all kinds) is to be an example. For example, I played basketball with the YMCA here in town for 10 years and they didn’t know my dad was a big preacher or anything like that. But week after week I was kind, I was happy, I was positive, I didn’t argue; they never saw me curse or get into scuffles. It’s amazing but over time, I bet you a dozen of those people, the most competetive ones who fought a lot, are here at church today. I think the seed was planted because they said, "We saw that Joel was real back then." I’m a big believer in letting our light shine like that, being good to people, letting them experience God's love.

Read the print article, 'Confessions of a Megachurch Pastor'

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